A $3,700,000 Federal Grant is being used to teach the Tlingit language and culture. Tlingit is currently spoken by less than 200 people. Click here.
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October 23rd, 2009 at 11:23 am
Which proves the fact that it is almost an extinct language, needing some help.
October 23rd, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Wow, Eric maybe you should flip the bill for it. The Fed is broke, china owns our ass and oh yeah WE ARE BROKE. Take the 3.7 mil. an put it to good use, like job creation. I’m sure that would be at the top of the list for people out of work now. But nooooo, lets blow money we don’t even have on the most stupid shit you could even think of.
I think its way past time the american people take back our check book. Every time the Fed wants to spend money it should go to a national vote. Maybe that would slow there spending on things like tlingit.
October 23rd, 2009 at 10:40 pm
why hasn’t the government spent some money like that a long time ago to teach mexicans english?
October 24th, 2009 at 12:25 am
They don’t want Mexicans or Koreans to learn to speak or understand English well. Knowledge is the end of cheap labor.
October 25th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
why doesn’t the Repub governor replacement for the quitter Palin simply refuse to take it??
maybe he is too busy trying to find his own witch hunting pastor to bless him to protect him from the evil spirits such as Palin did?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq1shD4mK18
October 25th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
UND WHAT THE F**K does that have to do with Fed wasting money on TLINGIT??????????????????????????????????????????????? Maybe you have the wrong post?
October 25th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
as I recall///Palin said that she would not accept any federal stim money…(I think she eventually did though)
so …why doesn’t the Repub gov simply refuse the money as she threatened to do??
( I did throw in the witch hunting stuff gratuitously…it is just such damn good video of the quitter!!)
October 25th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
come to think of it…what does teaching Mexicans English have to do with it ???
October 25th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Because the people learning the language would be empowered, unlike the new Tlingit speakers who could only say that they were there when the language went extinct.
October 25th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
you see NO benefit in saving a language simply for saving a language??
I admit that the price tag sounds large….but what would YOU spend for saving a native language??
nothing?? perhaps ALL are empowered simply by being able to speak more than one language//
or is that too “touchy-feely” for real he men conservatives??
and like I asked….why don’t you petition the REPUB gov to reject the money if you are so darned upset about it??
October 26th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
I see the value, but I see far more value in empowering the millions of people living in this country who are disadvantaged by their inability to easily communicate with the literally hundreds of millions of people who speak a different language. As for why I don’t ask the governor to refuse the money, show me where I objected to the fed giving grants to states per se.
October 26th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
throughout our history,,,immigrants , legal or not, have come to this country without the knowledge of English,,
usually the 1st generation cannot speak it or speak it haltingly,,,,but their children generally pick it up and speak it fluently…
did you know that the original Lancaster paper…the “Ohio Eagle” published in German for the 1st few years?
so yes…I agree that the immigrants do indeed need to learn English..and just like what has happened for the past 200 years + ….they will
October 27th, 2009 at 10:38 am
except that Lankstir’s original Germans never insisted that everything be printed in both English and German, like Spanish speakers do today. In fact, I live on what used to be called German street.
October 27th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
I got thier language down pat— hi-yi,yi,yi hi-yi,yi,yi!
October 27th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Great. Now, how’s about getting our language (You know, English) kinda down.
Maybe?
October 27th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
“except that Lankstir’s original Germans never insisted that everything be printed in both English and German, like Spanish speakers do today. In fact, I live on what used to be called German street.”
Oh really? So the Germans are just simply better than the Mexicans then? Or is it just the Nazis that thought that?
October 27th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
…oh and nice touch indeed UND with the video. Reminds me of the good times.
October 27th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
so auntie…you were around here in the early 19th century??
otherwise…how do you know that the German immigrants did not insist on using their language???
and what proof do you have that current Spanish speaking immigrants insist on “everything” being written in Spanish too??
seems to me that it is common sense and common courtesy that we adapt just a little to accommodate others…and it just makes sense…for public safety and other reasons
no one is forcing Wal-Mart or the banks to print signs in Spanish…isn’t that capitalism at its best??? trying to make more sales and such..
some of you sound just a tad bigoted …
{{{Immigrants, both legal and illegal, continue to be attracted to the United States and its opportunities. According to the U.S. Census, in 1990, the number of immigrants was estimated at 28 million. Fourteen years later that number increased to 32 million. Most of the 32 million immigrants are Hispanic with Asians as the second largest cohort. In a report published by the CEA, or Council of Economic Advisers, immigrants were found to positively contribute to the U.S. economy. The data indicate that immigrants contribute more than $30 billion in income for American workers (U.S. born). In terms of innovation per capita, immigrants in the U.S. beat the U.S. born workers. A greater number of immigrants start up businesses compared to native born Americans; their start up pace is estimated to be 40% greater. }}}
http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/contributions.html
October 27th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
“According to the U.S. Census, in 1990, the number of immigrants was estimated at 28 million. Fourteen years later that number increased to 32 million. Most of the 32 million immigrants are Hispanic with Asians as the second largest cohort.”
So why do you rarely see Asian languages on signs? Where are laws written in Asian languages? Almost every Asian immigrant I’ve met speaks English, even in Chinatown.
And you rarely hear about illegal immigrants other than Hispanic.
October 28th, 2009 at 6:17 am
Learning a second language because ten speak it for every person who speaks your language primarily doesn’t force you to abandon your native language or culture, it merely gives you the opportunity to interact with the ninety percent of the country that doesn’t speak your language as their preferred language, therefore improving your opportunity to interact with them, and possibly improve your standard of living and employment opportunity.
October 28th, 2009 at 6:20 am
as for Asian languages….perhaps cause there are not that many 1st generation Asian -Americans around here?
doesn’t it just make sense that those who are new to the country may take a while to learn the language?
this fear of those who do not speak or look exactly like an “American” baffles me
October 28th, 2009 at 8:02 am
My question is why do I and every other tax payer have to see our tax dollars get wasted on this, just so people can learn tlingit for free? If i wanted to learn a new language I would have to pay for it. And don’t give me that shit they can’t afford it so we have give it away.
Did anyone stop and think maybe the tlingit time on earth is done. Just like the old oak tree that last weeks storm took down or the one that died last winter. The tree’s time was up, just like tlingit.
UND, your facts about immigrants starting up businesses are a bit tilted. I think there little businesses are tax free for about 8 years or so. just like when they move here. So maybe the Fed should accommodate me with a tax free ride and I’ll help the low american numbers with a new business.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Ohio Bobcat said: “Oh really? So the Germans are just simply better than the Mexicans then? Or is it just the Nazis that thought that?”
Have you ever heard of “Godwin’s Law”?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin‘s_law
October 28th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
“”otherwise…how do you know that the German immigrants did not insist on using their language???”"
……because if they did UND, We’d be still be speaking German in Lanaster today.
Back in the school daze- people took Spanish and French as a second language. You better not now-a-days! If you want to be able to adapt in the next 20-30 years, you better learn an Asian or middle-eastern language!
The only way Spanish is going to help you is trying to tell a hotel maid that you need some more towels.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
“Ohio Bobcat said: “Oh really? So the Germans are just simply better than the Mexicans then? Or is it just the Nazis that thought that?”
Have you ever heard of “Godwin’s Law”?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law”
jackscrow: hahaha. Sorry not quite. It was called lazy sarcasm. I don’t think you got it. And it had nothing to do with comparisons. Quite simply it was a fact that the Nazi party paraded on well… have you heard of “Lebensunwertes Leben”. In this context, apparently certain languages are “languages unworthy of speaking”…
October 28th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
43130 said:
“……because if they did UND, We’d be still be speaking German in Lanaster today.”
I respectfully call BULLISH!!! Having taught in and around DC with much of our student population upwards of 30 to 40% Hispanic in sections of the district, most first generation Hispanics speak exclusively English at school. And these are elementary students. They are actually following the trend of first generation immigrants past… as Germans. It takes a bit… cool off. I know the Spanish at McDonald’s is a culture shock but we’ll make it.
October 28th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
UND, how many languages have YOU learned so you may converse with non-English speaking neighbors?
October 28th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
I can hold a passing conversation in Spanish and it took over five years of studying it every day to become THAT proficient. Learning a new language is not something that everyone can do, but it’s always simpler to teach tens of people a new language than millions.
October 28th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
“UND, how many languages have YOU learned so you may converse with non-English speaking neighbors?”
So UND himself must be an avid fan of foreign languages to defend Tlinglit language or more importantly as he has clearly eluded… the importance of advocating for education to avoid our world from losing a native language? Being an educator myself I can find find *gasp* much worse things that we spend 3.7 million bucks on. I think we all can. And as UND stated, you have the right as an American citizen to try and do something about it.
October 28th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
I’ll be betting that “Lebensunwertes Leben” is also covered under Godwin’s Law.
Lazy? Maybe. Hard to tell. Sarcastic? It didn’t read that way. Funny – definately not.
Try another tact, maybe? Less pretentious?
And, I like it when UND defends himself. He’s very capable of it, much more succinct and comes off as much less self-involved.
Thanks.
October 28th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
I took 6 years of French in the public schools system…..my senior year teacher at LHS was a recent grad of a university in Montreal. She required us to speak French exclusively in class..
I learned more that year than the previous 5….even started actually thinking in French a little (or “un peu”)
so….that experience kinda opened my eyes to the fact that immersion is the best way to go to learn a language….the simple fact of BEING here will be the best way for immigrants to learn l’Anglais.
October 29th, 2009 at 8:09 am
To read this post, press 1 for English, otherwise hang up.
If you want to learn a new language, that’s you personal right. Use your own money buy a Rosetta Stone, not mine. I’m tired of the Government waste of my tax dollars, Federal, State and Local.
How much money could be saved by the Government if they gave each truly Legal Immigrant an English Rosetta Stone compared to changing everything, such as signs, to 15 different languages.
My half of my ancestors learned learned English, so what’s the problem?
October 29th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
After reading some of the posts to articles on LEG it seems like the government should have invested a few mill on preserving ENGLISH.
I think you can get a free “Learn Tlingit” DVD from the Video Professor.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
I feel to waste money we all need to emulate our govt… they spend borrowed money on ridiculus ideas while in the past 20 years people have suffered here at home. It is not a Democrat or republican problem….
Its A GOVT problem….
any buisness that had the same practices as our National govt would have been bailed out by the Current Congress and Admin by now…and told to “shape up”
October 29th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
“the simple fact of BEING here will be the best way for immigrants to learn l’Anglais.”
unless, of course. we spend billions writing everything in Spanish, so they don’t have to learn English
October 29th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
“I’ll be betting that “Lebensunwertes Leben” is also covered under Godwin’s Law.
Lazy? Maybe. Hard to tell. Sarcastic? It didn’t read that way. Funny – definately not.
Try another tact, maybe? Less pretentious?
And, I like it when UND defends himself. He’s very capable of it, much more succinct and comes off as much less self-involved.
Thanks.”
Hahaha… *sigh*. Yes, I would agree that Lebensunwertes Leben should be a part of Godwin’s Law. Maybe “posters unworthy of posting” would suffice in this context. Your argument (or critique) would work if you knew what you were critiquing. I will admit my post was clumsy… but you still insist to be a bore and go after it. But, well since anything goes I am game. Godwin’s Law was in reference to using it to try and spark an advantage or use as a comparison in a debate. I really don’t think either apply in terms of my intentions… merely stating that it is a fact… the period of the Nazi regime was a period of less cultural diversity. End of story. Sorry to you that I brought it up to get you fixated. Also, I will keep in mind next time to appease to your needs of being less “pretentious” and more “succinct”. I’ll try not to post anymore right before bed… that would probably be a good start.
And thank you.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
When someone is quick to read ulterior motives into other people’s posts, like subtle accusations of bigotry, I think it’s fair to find out how much that person actually has done to benefit the parties he’s accusing others of attacking.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
having an open mind and accepting others for who they are are not enough for you??
I donate often to the United Farm Workers….I respect others even though they are not the same ethnic background ….
lumping all or even most ..of our problems as a country onto the backs of those who are simply trying to better themselves and their families..by committing the “horrid” crime of wanting to live in the greatest country on Earth..
let me be more clear…much of this is out and out prejudice and bigotry..
perhaps you can all work for Lou Dobbs when you grow up
October 30th, 2009 at 7:52 am
And THAT mentality is the reason why you were asked to prove your own dedication. Why do you insist on reading so much into every statement that runs contrary to yours?
October 30th, 2009 at 7:58 am
Searching conversations for “code words” and presuming the worst at every possible chance was once considered a sign of prejudice. Why take a stance against bigotry by using an argument technique that is considered a tool of bigotry? It’s very unbecoming and makes it very difficult for people who agree with you in part to offer you any support at all.
October 30th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
evenfatterguy… who are you referring to? If it is me, then I may laugh quite a bit. This convo is over… let’s try again next time. I am sure crabby will post something much more controversial soon enough that we can really divulge into… something to certainly get the panties in a bunch.
October 30th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
if one posts comments such as “why do those people need to have everything written in their language” it seems rather obvious to me that it is prejudging “those” people..
“those” people are no different than you and me…they want the best for their families and want to be as successful (however they measure success) as any of us..
and there is not universal agreement among ANY people…perhaps many of the “illegals” DO know English and are not badgering anyone to write anything in Spanish…
October 30th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
“by committing the “horrid” crime of wanting to live in the greatest country on Earth..”
just not badly enough to obey the law
October 30th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
it is a misdemeanor… not much worse than jay-walking
October 30th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
UND:
I pose this question to you:
Can you name any other non English speaking country where the govt has gone out of its way to promote English on every sign, instructions or paperwork?
Americans are given a bad rap in a no win scenerio…
we as Americans are expected to bend to the “needs” of immigrants BUT when we are the immigrants or visitors in other countries we are not given the same respect or allowances that are demanded of us.
Why should we print spanish everywhere…American ENGLISH is what is “native” (used VERY loosely with no disrespect to our Native American brotheren) so why do we have to bend to those who come here…
Im not saying to not help (interpreters and such for agencies) but when you go to any OTHER country they expect you to learn their Language…should we not expect the same???
I feel that the American govt can use the quoted amount of money better to suit the “needs” of fellow americans who at this time are hungry, homeless and such than give money to a language that for whatever reason is spoken by less than 300 people…. I ask is their any OTHER countries donating to this cause (Crabby??? do you know ?) I like to see if Other countries feel as passionate as our govt do to “save” the tlingit language…
October 31st, 2009 at 12:35 am
bend to the needs of immigrants??????
wow..we ARE all immigrants…except for Native Americans of course…and how are we “bending”??
and English IS the “international” language…just as Latin once was and later French…
how the deuce is printing a few signs in Spanish hurting anyone???
and in the grand scheme of things ..$3,000,000 is a pittance….we spend that much probably in one hour on needless wars
October 31st, 2009 at 5:10 am
Let me add at least one more thing (depending upon the type of responses we get haha)… especially in this economy today no matter what your view on this whole thing…
It really gets you a leg up to know at least a second language. In this economy as well. That is something… one of just a handful of skills… that can really take an individual much further. If you can combine a college education, a second language, and some specific field work and experience, your resume is platinum. That just goes back to the “global” world we live in that so many of you refer upon. You can either complain or take it for what it is worth; as an opportunity.
October 31st, 2009 at 8:55 am
Tlingit as a second language?
How about teaching English first? Things like “fewer than 200 people”, instead of “less than 200 people”.
October 31st, 2009 at 9:36 am
Once again UND you did NOT answer my question…
so i will pose two more…
Why do we need to over publish Spanish??
We have a mass amount of: Koreans, Chinese, african, Japanese, hindu, etc…
why dont we spend the same amount on THOSE signs??
and IS their any other country spending this assine amount of money on Tlinglit?
Please feel free to answer those…since you couldnt answer my original one.
English is not put on every sign everywhere in foriegn countries..you are expected to have a grasp on their language…here in america, it seems that we as americans need to “learn ” the immigrants language to assist them…
My thoughts is that if Im going to lets say Russia, Id learn the basic grasp of the language….so why shouldnt i expect anyone coming here to do the same??
Why should my money (tax dollars) go to pay for these signs when there are people (AMERICANS) still living in FEMA trailers who need help.
Take it for (take care of our own first) then we can be in a position to help others.
October 31st, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Chris K… UND answered your questions the best he could. I thought it was quite adequate. The questions you pose don’t really matter in this context. No offense please. The point UND was making is that the English language is now more or less the international language… so questions you seek including asking if other non-english speaking countries attempt to throw the english language publicly on the people is therefore null and void… further compounded with UND’s point to begin which we can all agree upon… we are a country of immigrants. That separates us dramatically from almost any country that you could counter with.
In Russia, if you visited eluded, you would find that a good deal of people could speak adequate English to you and hence back to my first paragraph. So, therefore your concern would be less to learn it so well. But indeed that is your choice. And besides most Hispanics in this country I know have learned enough of the English language to speak at least somewhat.
With Koreans, Chinese, African, etc… many of them have been around here for centuries. They have already blended in for the most part. Come back in 50 years, maybe even 20, and I would imagine based on what history has taught us will be that the great rash of Hispanic population that we have received in recent years will have blended their culture completely with ours and they can draw similar comparisons to the ethnic groups you mentioned.
And back to your question: where do we “over publish” Spanish? With the Hispanic population well over 20% here near DC, a vast majority of private industries utilize Spanish contexts within the framework of their businesses… has nothing to do with our government.
October 31st, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Ohio Bobcat:
when in Lancaster Ohio i see spanish everywhere on signs Ie: McDs etc but dont see the same amount of offerings of “other” Linguistics I wonder why are we treating Spanish so different??
your argument of “them (meaning other languages) being here for decades etc is Bullish… new immigrants from all over the world come into America every day..and no offense Spanish (mexicans) have been here longer than even most of us..
I question why we only single out spanish when there is a major influx of hindu, muslim and arabic countries let alone African cultures as well…
Im not trying to sound like a prick, but to spend money on ANY language other than English is to me….Well a waste…
I feel that if a person is imigrating to ANY country they( the immigrant) should be able to survive in that countrys culture and language base… they shouldnt expect the country to bend to the immigrant, but the immigrant should adapt to the country…
Just my thoughts…
Which is what I think Crabby was trying to address in the first place.
October 31st, 2009 at 8:45 pm
last I heard, to become a citizen, you must have a grasp of English
October 31st, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Naturalization test:
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=dd7ffe9dd4aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=dd7ffe9dd4aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD
October 31st, 2009 at 9:30 pm
Chris K… no offense either with this… I am personally bored with this topic and this happens which always seems to… we have gone full circle and nothing really is being added on at this point.
I think it is different with the Hispanic population… sure there are thousands… I don’t know the number… but a great deal of immigrants that come to the U.S. still today all over the world. But with that being said, by and large today it is the Hispanic population. So, hence you see many in the private industry taking advantage of this. It is for that reason ultimately about the money. Many from the European countries and some Asian countries immigrated in larger numbers around 100 years ago.
I am still not sure where you are getting this that the government is pumping money into putting Spanish signs and other items out everywhere. If you can back this up with some specific examples, we can touch on that. Until then, there is not really much left to say.
And again from an educator’s standpoint, I find it very nice that the government is wanting to stress some money into saving a language. As with playing an instrument or being involved with other extracurricular activities, I have seen studies that have shown that our children learn more and are more well rounded for our society when they learn at least a second language. I know that is a tangent, but there is something to be said for supporting these types of endeavors and saving a native language can fall under that general category.
November 1st, 2009 at 10:43 am
Ohio Bobcat:
I guess my point is Yes it would be nice to spend this money BUT when we are supposed to be “tightening our belts” and have such a large borrowed debt, spending that kind of money to save a language seems excessive when the same money could be used to further rebuilding our homes, Katrina victims, and our infrastructure.
I do agree with you that learning a second language is benificial, but why should AMERICANS do that and not hold immigrants to the same?
as for the Mexcians/Spanish speaking vs others…I feel other countries (asian muslim and such Encourage english more and THATS the difference…
Im glad you are an educator it is a proud thing and thankless job (this coming form a family full of teachers)
I only hope that as we “absorb” other cultures that the govt (both local up to national) realize that the arts and Music are also important (as well as physical ed which i hear is beign phased out it seems) to a child development..
November 1st, 2009 at 1:08 pm
“I have seen studies that have shown that our children learn more and are more well rounded for our society when they learn at least a second language.”
If, of course, it is a language that can actually be USED.
November 1st, 2009 at 5:22 pm
…somewhat true. It’s like when you learn the violin. You may never use it after 6th grade music classes, but you gain a better understanding of academics.
November 4th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
DN’T NOBODY NOHOW START ON THE REDNECK LANGUE?
YUNTO GIT IT ON?